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The Djego Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.04 18:17:00 - [1] Edited by: The Djego on 04/11/2009 18:18:04 In general throw a role bonus(37.5% web strength increase, what makes 60% webs 75% webs) on dedicated blaster ships(thorax, diemos, brutix, Astarte, Mega, Hype) and balance from there(what only leaves minor things). You will end up with good solo ships, deadly close range PVP machines and make them own at short range again instead of being only handy caped with range. Simply the same thing you had pre QR. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition	Posted - 2010.05.03 10:14:00 - [2] Funny how fast a blaster thread turns into a rails + fleet thread. Not that we already have such a thing right here in AH. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition	Posted - 2010.05.06 22:08:00 - [3] I guess it is to much to ask for Goum and NMX free blaster threads, is it? ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition	Posted - 2010.05.15 08:14:00 - [4] Edited by: The Djego on 15/05/2010 09:39:26 Originally by: Ephemeron Speaking from personal preference as long time battleship user, I'd say a 20% raw dps increase for blaster will make me want to fly Megathrons again, even tho I'll still hate how hard it is to fit one. Likewise, if blaster damage was increased 10%, I may try Mega and Hyperion once, but would stick to my preferred Dominix and Typhoon. Ability to fit heavy energy neutralizer >> extra dps. Even with 20% raw DPS increase I don't see a real point in it, even before QR blaster ships where at least 10% DPS short to overcome similar flown\fitted ships by pure DPS advantage at her range(EHP\DPS wise). The damage is also split into Drones and Guns so it is mostly a 12-16% boost for most ships. Strong point of most good solo ships is not the DPS, it is the flexibility and the ability to leave next to no weaknesses in the offensive and defensive capability to prevent other ships from using them against your(ability to deal with small stuff, some kind of GTFO ability, ability to prevent/counter kitting, not losing all ability's if you get neuted, ability to dedicate range). While blaster ships where not capable of doing some of this things they still had solid mix of it, enough to make them work. That changed with QR. Originally by: Liang Nuren IMO I think it depends what role you're trying to go for... and with blaster and laser ships that's the "damage dealer" role. Minmatar ships as a rule don't really fill this role. As I said, there's only a few options: - Make blaster ships able to get to their targets in a timely manner and without expending 2-3 cap booster 800s to do it. (Read: Make them faster and/or more agile) - Make blaster ships have nuts high DPS to offset the time it takes to get into range. - Extend blaster range so that they come into range sooner - Make lasers (and therefore projectiles and torps and pretty much everything else) do less damage. -Liang I'm quite happy with using ak ships as damage dealers atm, dps difference is not this big after putting selectable damage types in and using the bigger range window. - A bit more speed/agility would be nice, but you will still lose the fights you would lose today so no big change. - What exactly do you think is "nuts high DPS"? Also you still end up with a limited damage dealer for smaller gangs instead of a flexible solo ship. - We already got AKs/Lasers for this. - meh ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition	Posted - 2010.05.20 18:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Ephemeron Any "alternative" solution to blasters, such as the one I quoted, will simply decrease diversity by making things same. Or infringe on special roles of other races, thus guaranteeing future headache of fixing emergent problems with those other races. Putting peak DPS at the target within web range quickly, stop targets at gates solo without gimped tackling range and the ability to control range within web range where things that made blaster ships good at her niche. Putting back the "lethal" in web range for gank style blaster pvp is a long overdone step and provides a lot more diversity than a bit more DPS would do. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition	Posted - 2010.05.20 21:40:00 - [6] Edited by: The Djego on 20/05/2010 21:41:02 Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: The Djego Originally by: Ephemeron Any "alternative" solution to blasters, such as the one I quoted, will simply decrease diversity by making things same. Or infringe on special roles of other races, thus guaranteeing future headache of fixing emergent problems with those other races. Putting peak DPS at the target within web range quickly, stop targets at gates solo without gimped tackling range and the ability to control range within web range where things that made blaster ships good at her niche. Putting back the "lethal" in web range for gank style blaster pvp is a long overdone step and provides a lot more diversity than a bit more DPS would do. My idea for Gallente niche is that operating blasters should be difficult, but those who can manage it, overcome the obstacles, would get rewarded by unparalleled DPS strength. And that means a difference of more than a single damage mod on any other ship. Minmatar should do what you mentioned, be optimized for ease of use as opposed to dps power. I would be the last one agreeing against a DPS boost for blasters, I did fly them with maximum gank all the time. Then again I don't see the point without tweaking close range for blaster ships in favour of the blaster ship again. You request a very very limited small gang tool, I basically do the same, with the difference that the ships would be useful for solo PVP again. Minmatar ships already do what I mentioned. There should not be a minmatar patent of being the all out solo pvp solution. If you are ready to take all the drawbacks and let go gtfo ability there should be a option for people that going in for a kill and are ready to die for it. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition	Posted - 2010.05.22 07:43:00 - [7] Edited by: The Djego on 22/05/2010 07:43:50 Originally by: Ephemeron tweaking close range in positive manner would be undoing the Great Nano Nerf. Make webs 90%, remove MWD deactivation for scramble, make ships fast again. That has worked in the past, then CCP had to ** things up. Raw damage is a single factor that can be used to manipulate balance in this case. It is the easiest way that would involve least amount of unexpected errors. Alternative balancing requires adjustment of multiple variables, the consequences of which are harder to predict and harder to tune properly. While I don't doubt that balance can be achieved by adjusting many different factors, I simply find it unnecessary complication. And I don't trust CCP with anything complicated. We gotta keep things as simple as possible for them to get it right. I to would prefer pre QR stats, even if I flown nearly the hole nano age a plated/trimarked face ** solo BS. It is quite funny that I do use mostly nano setups with ranged dps for exactly the same job this days. shrugs DPS as a number is as meaningless as blaster pvp this days, there is a reason all "pro" blaster pvp is shown with maximum tank and minimum DPS this days. Fixing webs for blaster ships is not complicated or leads to game breaking ships, it simply fixes the meta game and gives blaster ships back his niche. Originally by: Ephemeron Just calculate how long you need to active repair in order to break even with the plate on HP added - forget the cap requirements 1600mm plate: 4200 hp, 1.25 from skill, 1.52 from rigs, total hp bonus: 7980 medium armor repper: 320 hp over 9 sec (after skill), 1.375 hp ship bonus, 1.2 from combat booster, 1.41 from active boost rigs (stacking penalized), you get: 744.48 / 9 sec or 82.72 hp/sec Without slaves, a active tank will remain nearly the same time on the field as a buffer fit(for non comedy active tanks). In many situations unfortunately this will be true in both ways, meaning that it made no real difference going with buffer or active. The problem is that it comes at a huge pricetag of weapon range, flexibility with the fittings, speed(trimarks), slots, dps and being more affected by neuts. With Implants and Combat Boosters it can be effective, but as stand alone on most ships in plain T2 it puts to many drawbacks up in front for something that "might" make a difference in the end. Originally by:* Cpt Branko But anyway, the rep bonus has nothing at all to do on turret ships which need damage mods to be useful. This. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition	Posted - 2010.06.13 09:53:00 - [8] Edited by: The Djego on 13/06/2010 09:53:35 Bumpski Still waiting for the day CCP puts back solo into solo blaster pvp... ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition	Posted - 2010.06.21 14:45:00 - [9] Edited by: The Djego on 21/06/2010 14:47:58 Originally by: Super Whopper As an avid blaster pilot I suggest more range over more DPS. You should not have a lot of issues in a blaster fitted Ibis. If you want more range you can always fly another race or use another weapon. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.08.18 17:56:00 - [10] Originally by: Rip Minner And yes optimal needs inc. Blasters are from the days gone by when BS's could first go 1,200km and from a second age were you could double web effectivaly. My BS still goes over 1200 m/s(obvious it isn't a mega). A mega in 2006 did 1250-1400m/s, depending on the MWD, before they added mass to the MWDs. A 90% Web was 4 times stronger than a 60% is now. Originally by: Rip Minner Now both thoughs days are gone. I have more ideals after the optimal is inc. But that should be the first step right there. If you want more range there is still Caldari, Amarr or Mini, DPS is quite comparable in general game play. I for myself don't see any reason to increase range, there are a lot ships that can do this already. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.

The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.12 13:11:00 - [11] Edited by: The Djego on 12/09/2010 13:14:51 Originally by: Fettered Soul Originally by: mazzilliu i honestly dont remember if this has been raised yet by a csm but i raised this anyways for the next meeting, and if it's a duplicate i can just cancel it. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Fix_blasters_%28CSM%29 Could you change "Potential Solution". Increasing range for blasters brake its tactical distinction. Please add second Potential Solution: "Increasing DPS and tracking" Pulse Lasers = good DPS at insane range AC = good DPS (using adjustable damage type) at medium range. Good tracking. Blasters = should have EXTREME DPS with EXTREME tracking at VERY CLOSE range (leave range as is). Increasing range for blasters is creating second "Pulse Blaser" P.S. as for now Blasters does not have EXTREME DPS (Lasers do 85% blaster damage at 300% range) and EXTREME tracking (AC have almost the same) +1 here In general I miss the old days and ways to engage in blaster combat. Where working with a platform that forces a target to point blank pvp did mean something else than flying a slow brick and running into tracking issues, just to perform as bad as anything else at this range. I don't see a huge need of yet another med range gun, however I feel the lack of a true heavy hitter at point blank that is a lot less effected by the "lets make web range less deadly" mindset that was introduced with QR. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.19 10:20:00 - [12] Originally by: Spugg Galdon You have the right idea but you can't boost blaster tracking much, if at all, as ships like the Megathron will be able to track frigates. AC's hold an issue as they have the same theoretical tracking as blasters but far more range (yes I know its fall off but fall off is effective)and AC's get tracking boosting ammo. Nonsense you couldn't even hit firgs well with 90% webs under 5km back in the days with a Neutron Mega(and they didn't even got ABs). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.05 17:09:00 - [13] It is in general a good idea to ignore people that try to argument about her slaved multi billion ISK BS as baseline(that also got fixed webs instead the 60% fail most people are supposed to work with) while totally ignoring the shortcoming of all more common T1 and T2 hulls. Btw NMX I can do 1.45k DPS(before heat) in my affordable mega(that I don't fly anymore), that doesn't make it a good solo gank ship or a passable small gang ship in low sec most of the time since you can't put this DPS well on the targets and it is terrible at catching stuff. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.11 15:57:00 - [14] Originally by: NightmareX But how much tank do you have on the Mega then? 93k Originally by: NightmareX I think it have a very poor tank. The key point in flying gank fitted Blaster BS solo might be not be the tank. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.17 20:05:00 - [15] Edited by: The Djego on 17/10/2010 20:07:53 Originally by: irion felpamy Originally by: The Djego Originally by: NightmareX But how much tank do you have on the Mega then? 93k Originally by: NightmareX I think it have a very poor tank. The key point in flying gank fitted Blaster BS solo might be not be the tank. I think this is fundamentaly flawed logic, if you are solo who else are they going to be shoting at? Tank is a very relevant point. The point in flying a ship in this fashion is that it improves the ability to make kills vs people that don't want to fight you or people that have a fair chance of gtfo, so it requires a ship that gets the kills done while relaying on as less mistakes of the other pilot as possible. Also it did highly improve the ability shut down sub BS tacklers quick and makes you easy to catch but hard to hold(at least pre QR it did). In my general experience a heavy tank is not this important for a predator. I use even less EHP in my current BS fits. With multiple fights ending in structure I still not feel the need for a better tanking ability since it would be a wast of slots most of the time. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.25 07:30:00 - [16] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf First a definition -wrecking hits - they do up to 300% of normal damage on a target. They depend on a lot of different factors to happen. Transversal velocity, weapon damage type vs. target resistances, tracking, ect. Not really, wrecking hits happen at 1% chance every shoot, and don't affected by transversal or damage types/resistances(beyond the normal calculations). Quote: If your chance-to-hit is greater than 1%, 1% of your shots (all shots, not just hits) will be wrecking hits. If your chance-to-hit is less than 1% then all of your hits will be wrecking hits. Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Double or triple the chance that railguns or blasters get a wrecking hit. Give blasters a slight tracking boost - say 10%. That doesn't look like much but it would increase the chance of a critical hit and give more damage potential. That would only increase damage by 2-4% in a peek dps situation, a bit more in situations you deal less. However it is not even close to create a noticeable effect in the end. 10% tracking is basically a useless change for blasters. It would be like adding 1% falloff to ACs. Originally by: Zarnak Wulf This would give hybrids a racial flavor. No, it would not. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.25 18:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf I threw "double or triple" out there to simply flesh out the idea. If it is a 1% chance for a wrecking hit - what about increasing the chance ten fold to 10% for hybrids? And leave the tracking increase as debatable? That would be a 20% dps increase, that sounds a lot, however even with this you are left with the issues created by QR. In general I don't see any real reason to use one without the ability to pin down a target at point blank and hold it perfectly in place for any kind of medium or large blaster ship once you catch it. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.25 19:05:00 - [18] Originally by: Rickhart all of you are forgetting how much cap lasers consume if you guys want a blaster boost your gonna have to increase the cap consumption also After the cap bonus it is mostly equal. Also you need far more cap to move the hulls around with the MWD. In my experience cap need is actually higher for most gallente hulls under real combat conditions. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.25 19:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Rickhart are you saying the mwd's consume more cap when their used with a gallente hull? No, but there is a serious difference in the need of mwding around with a optimal of 4.5/11km compared to 15/45km in most combat situations... ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.29 13:29:00 - [20] Edited by: The Djego on 29/10/2010 13:33:02 Originally by: Rickhart Originally by: The Djego Originally by: Rickhart are you saying the mwd's consume more cap when their used with a gallente hull? No, but there is a serious difference in the need of mwding around with a optimal of 4.5/11km compared to 15/45km in most combat situations... have you ever actually lost a fight against an amarr because the fight started out at 45k? Since I know how close the fights against good fitted and flown geddon are if you start at 20km or less, chances are pretty good I never engaged one at 45km. Mega(NB, 3MFS): 22 Cap/s Gedon(MP, 3HS): 32.3 Cap/s(+10.3) Abaddon(MP, 2HS): 52 Cap/s(+30) A single MWD Cycle takes 540 Cap and you need 3-4 to cover the common 24-20km distance to a target in a Mega. Time to break even: 2m 40s to the gedon 54s to the abaddon This is only 3 bursts and assuming you only got 1 target. In most fights you will have more than just 1 target and you will need the mwd a lot more than just for 3 cycles to get and stay in range so the cap use is a lot higher most of the the time(before you even consider active tanking). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.

The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.12.10 11:14:00 - [21] Originally by: Gypsio III In my opinion, the problem is not that blasters are poor as such, it's that lasers are too good in the point-blank environment where you should be using blasters. Remove the 25% increase to tracking that Pulse got at the height of the nano-silliness. Blasters may still need a bit more damage after that, but it's a start. Rails are an awkward one. There's nothing the matter with the rail-Taranis, and a lot of the Eagle's problems are to do with PG. Maybe a bit more optimal range? That would let the range-bonused Caldari boats use CN ammo more easily, giving them more damage and better tracking than when using Spike. You would still fly a slow, inflexible ship, that can't control range and hit targets properly at web ranges. It would be still useless and everything that would be archived is that people fly less amarr and more mini. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.12.10 12:56:00 - [22] Edited by: The Djego on 10/12/2010 13:00:26 Originally by: Gypsio III But I disagree with the "can't control range and hit targets properly at web ranges" - the problem is getting there in the first place, as you allude to. I would agree that blaster ships are not agile/fast enough. However what is the point of going to combat ranges with blaster ships if any mini hull(in a TE gank setup) will deliver a far better damage projection at her respectable combat ranges(and in 9/10 cases the better damage on the target in the end) than you will archive at point blank with the current 60% webs? Pre QR, many people did think a blaster ships put out far more dps than it actually had. This opinion is mostly based around how people did fit and fly blaster ships and the ability to deliver peak dps(what was impossible for next to any other ship bar puls fits at range) relative easy and predictable. Without this the hole concept itself isn't this hot if you want to bring it for damage, and lets be honest there isn't anything else it has going for it outside of expensive active tanks with a "gank me" sticker on the back. Originally by: Gypsio III The Deimos is supposed to be balanced with the Vagabond in small-scale fights; but what kinda of crazy changes would you have to make to make those two balanced with each other? I'm pretty sure I wrote down a lot about it in the diemost thread on SHC. Main problem of the diemost is that it offers next nothing over other T1 damage dealers at combat ranges and lacks the proper survivability to make it more attractive in this role. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:55:00 - [23] Originally by: Ephemeron it would be a bit unfair if blasters had best damage AND best tracking. It would make them more general purpose, easier to use. Damage should be high, but it should be hard to use. Damage should be high enough to make overcoming tracking difficulties a useful thing. Employ web + scram, take advantage of falloff, try match traverse velocity. Things that take real player skill. Cause if you get high damage and ease of use, then it's unbalanced. I would disagree here. The limiter is already the short range(plus fitting, ammo, cap use etc. if you want to include it), what makes it mostly a small gang and solo weapon. In this scenarios it is mostly important that the gun performs a very solid job(better than other weapons in his engagement range and if you play it to the strength of it). It isn't difficult to apply very good damage to heavy tackled or ranged targets with lasers, it isn't difficult to apply damage with projectiles at a very huge range spectrum. This only leaves close range for blasters, where they must outperform other guns by a huge margin, both in the ability to apply damage(mostly by a proper web instead of higher tracking) as well as by superior base damage to make them a viable choice over the other options again. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.20 11:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Merijin Quote: Posted - 2009.10.25 13:23:00 Yes we can ! ( Hit the 2 Year of begging CCP to do something) Actually this is not true, post about this issues are even older: Linkage ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.

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